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Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:12 pm
by usdtc00
I found some hops in the freezer that I had sorta forgotten about from some previous batches. I'm thinking about making a "leftovers" IPA and trying out a saison yeast since I don't have great temp control for fermentation yet. I've never really tried building a recipe from scratch before so I'm interested to hear what feedback people might have.

The flaked wheat and all the hops except the citra are leftovers on hand. The extracts, citra and yeast I would have to pickup and are therefore the more negotiable points. I saw a recipe that was just 9 lbs Pilsen extract but the calculator doesn't show that in the correct SRM for the IPA category so I swapped some for dark DME. comes back with the following stats:

Original Gravity: 1.060 Final Gravity: 1.018 ABV (standard): 5.33% IBU (tinseth): 50.14 SRM (morey): 8.97

Steep: Flaked Wheat 1 lb
Pilsen LME: 6.6 lbs
Dark DME: 2 lbs
FWH: Citra 2oz (14.1AA)
60min: Tettnager .50oz (6.1AA)
60min: Liberty .50oz (4.9AA)
20min: Liberty .50oz (4.1AA)
15min: Czech Saaz .75oz (3.2AA)

Yeast: WLP565 Belgian Saison

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:26 am
by Joe Yoder
I know that it has become a popular thing, but to me, an IPA with Belgian yeast is an abomination!! That said, the amount of hops in that recipe don't get anywhere near what I consider the IPA range, so you aren't making an IPA, anyway. Call it something else and I am sure it will be fine.

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:42 am
by FDillon00
Joe Yoder wrote:That said, the amount of hops in that recipe don't get anywhere near what I consider the IPA range,
So what do you consider to be in the "IPA range"? Assuming, based on the malt/extract bill, a 5 gallon batch I get a IBU calculation of 121. That's not enough?

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:39 pm
by Joe Yoder
My bad. I looked up the IPA range after I posted and it is officially 40 to 60, the recipe stated 50, so that is well within the officially stated range of an IPA. Don't know where you get the 120, but those hop calculators are all over the place on various recipe calculators. 120 would be just fine, but I doubt that the amount of hops in that beer would actually measure that high.
The official range seems awfully low for my tastes, it puts every ipa except copperhead from freestate into the Imperial IPA range and most of my beers into the uberimperial range. I guess that is just another great thing about homebrewing, we can make beers to our tastes rather than following stated guidelines.

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:30 pm
by FDillon00
Beer Smith gives me 94.4 IBU off the Citra alone. The only definition I have ever seen of First Wort Hop (FWH, as it's listed in the recipe) is hops are added to the kettle as sparging starts and remains through the end of the boil. So 2 oz of 14.1AA Citra x 60 mins.

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:51 pm
by usdtc00
I was wondering what the different calculators do also, the one at has an option for first wort hopping and for the 2oz of citra it shows IBU: 34.32 for that addition. When it's set to 60 minute boil it becomes IBU: 56.67 for the citra addition. They also have 2 scales listed though, Tinseth & Rager. Using FWH the difference is negligible. Using 60 minute boil it gives an IBU difference of 72.49 (Tinseth) vs 112.88 (Rager). That's a big difference in calculation when you're trying to fit a BJCP style guideline.

I agree with the point about overall range though. It seems we've become very accustomed to IPAs being closer to what is "categorized" in the Imperial IPA section. I think it was one of Jamil's books that mentioned that the English IPA can have less perceived bitterness than an American pale ale these days.

Whatever, I'll drink'em all.

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:36 pm
by JMcG
I think that yeast will likely produce a lot of phenolic flavors (spice and pepper) and you will end up with something other than an "IPA".
If you want to try the saison yeast leave out the citra and make a saison.

Just my $.02.

Re: Saison Leftovers IPA

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:33 pm
by mymead
It would seem that your going for a dark hoppy saison, right?

Most recipes that I have seen call for:
only 3.3lbs of light LME.
"light" DME as Saison's are typically PP to light amber in color.
2 tsp of cracked black pepper in the last 5 mins of the boil. with this you'll get that peppery bite and not have to use a lot of powerful hops.

As for the Sp grains....."Eye of the beholder" on average there are 2-4 grains and there all over the chart. i think this is because Saisons are new to the USA and no one has put their foot down as to what is the excepted base recipe.

Spices: Black pepper(most common), coriander, heather tips, Camille, ginger.

Now keep in mind that Im not an old drip brewer but here is my take on Saisons.
French version of a Pilsner.
Pilsners are lagerd, clean, clear in color
Saisons are IPA'ed at 70-78*F, earthy flural spicy, cloady light to clear light amber in color

Almost like they brew what ever is leftover at the end of spring planting, just to get rid of it. "waste not, want not." Brew at the end of April and drink at the end of June/July. If you just put up 800 bales of hay, what would you like to drink?