cherry
Moderator: Officers
cherry
I have some pie cherrys the tart kind I think I would like to maybe build a lite session typ beer with them I was thinking some two row maybe 9# 2row and 1oz bitering and 1oz finish hops? any sogestions. also sould I add the cherrys in the primery fermentation or what ? thanks for any input. jack
maybe think twice about finishing hops... how much hop character (not bittering) do you want? If cherry is the predominate character that you want in the finished product, maybe a hop schedule that loads up early in the boil (maybe no additions the last 20 minutes) is a better answer. Are you thinking of putting in the boil, primary, or secondary-- or a combination of stages? The boil adds some interesting taste profiles, but almost all the nose dissipates in the boil evaporation, and there is some pectin haze to consider... the primary lessens the chance of haze, but the flavors still evolve with the nose again being mostly blown out the air lock... the freshness of the fruit will shine the most in the secondary-- when the Cherrys start to turn white they have done their magic.
Cherries are typically added to secondary but beware of the additional fermentation that will occur, it may seriously dry out your beer. I just racked a belgian onto cherries and I now have airlock activity. I'm doing two five pound doses to five gallons of beer.
+1 on using wheat. If you don't have wheat you can use wheat flour as an adjunct with pretty decent results. Just add to the top of the mash to prevent sticking. This is also a great application for mash hops, the aroma and flavor will fade but the bitterness will remain subtle. Maybe consider a no-boil scenario, where the wort is brought to a boil and then immediately cooled to pitching temps.
Keep us updated with your results!
+1 on using wheat. If you don't have wheat you can use wheat flour as an adjunct with pretty decent results. Just add to the top of the mash to prevent sticking. This is also a great application for mash hops, the aroma and flavor will fade but the bitterness will remain subtle. Maybe consider a no-boil scenario, where the wort is brought to a boil and then immediately cooled to pitching temps.
Keep us updated with your results!
Im doing a Cherry Saison w/fresh tart cherries. I too will be adding them into secondary. Most likely will be adding some Brett to all or 1/2 of this batch as well.
Jensen talks about pectin haze which is true. But if your doing a wheat beer, then the haze wont effect you. Might do some research on freezing cherries and its effect on pectin.
Jensen talks about pectin haze which is true. But if your doing a wheat beer, then the haze wont effect you. Might do some research on freezing cherries and its effect on pectin.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
In reading your posts I decided to look into pectin...I found this information. I had never heard of a method for checking pectin levels. Best of luck! This is from Mr. Wizard in BYO
The last two issues of BYO ? the July-August 2002 issue and the September 2002 issue ? contained a two-part article on fruit beers. Check these out for information on formulating and brewing fruit beers. I will tackle the question regarding pectin here. Pectin is a type of carbohydrate found in fruits that act as a structural member of the fruit, kind of like beta glucan in cereal grains. In cooking, pectin is useful for its ability to form a gel when heated in a sugar solution with a low pH. This is why jams and jellies are thick and stay on your toast or bagel instead of running off.
Although all fruits contain some pectin, many do not contain enough for making jams and jellies and many fruit spreads use pectin from other sources than the fruit being used. Certain varieties of apples, such as Granny Smith, are well-known for their especially high pectin contents.
When it comes to brewing and winemaking, pectin levels are usually kept low for two main reasons. The first is the haze pectin can cause; pectin hazes are due to the very large size of the pectin molecule and the tendency for the molecule to form gels. This is analogous to starch hazes. This is a cosmetic issue that some of us don?t worry too much about, depending on the beer style being made. My strawberry wheat beer was cloudy, but wheat beers are typically cloudy and the cloud looked cool in that beer. Cloudiness, these days, is in fashion and some of those wimpy malternatives, like Smirnoff Ice and Mike?s Hard Lemonade, actually include ingredients to make them permanently cloudy. A friend of mine was in a brewery that was making ? I dare not use the term ?brewing? ? some of these things and he saw a big container of something called ?cloud.? This was the special ingredient to make it look interesting. When you make a fruit beer at home, you can omit the ?cloud.?
The other thing about pectin is that filtration becomes very, very difficult. The reason for this is again the large size of the molecule and its gelling properties. I make a hard cider every year. A couple of years ago I set up the filter, sent the cider to it as I had done in the past and wham! ? the flow immediately slowed to a stop in a matter of seconds. When the filter was broken down, there was a distinctive orange film on the filter. Although the film was thin, it was so tight that cider simply could not pass through it.
The solution to this problem was to buy a liquid pectinase that I then added to the cider. Pectinase enzymes reduce the size of the pectin molecule and also prevent the fragments from gelling. About a week later, filtration was a breeze. What I should have done was to perform an easy test for pectin before filtration. To check for the presence of pectin, simply add one part of the wort, beer or wine to one part 70% alcohol. Ethanol and iso-propanol both work. I use iso-propanol (rubbing alcohol) because it?s cheap. This test will cause pectin to gel. When this occurs, the sample becomes cloudy and the pectin begins to precipitate and will eventually settle on the bottom of the sample glass.
Although this method is not quantitative, you can get a feel for the pectin concentration. If the haze is detectable, but very slight, you may decide not to worry. If the sample looks like orange juice after adding the alcohol, you probably will choose to deal with the pectin. Fortunately, it?s simple to address this problem. The easiest thing to do is to add some pectinase to the fruit mush before adding the fruit to your beer. You can use dry or liquid pectinase ? follow the recommendations with the enzyme regarding usage rate. The other approach to take, especially if you don?t like adding stuff unnecessarily to your beer, is to do a test after fermentation is complete and the fruit has been added. If the sample indicates a pectin problem, then add your enzyme at this stage.
As I stated earlier, all fruits contain some pectin. According to my handydandy book entitled ?Preserving? (1981, Time-Life Books), tart apples, citrus fruits, cranberries, currants, gooseberries and sour plums all have ?high? pectin levels. Interestingly, all of these fruits also rank high in natural acid levels and these fruits make great jams and jellies without requiring an exogenous (outside) source of pectin. Strawberries, peaches, pear, pineapple, apricots and rhubarb all have a low pectin content. Cherries, blueberries, blackberries and raspberries all have a medium level of pectin. I think I see a pattern here ? it seems like brewers typically make fruit beers with fruits that have a low-to-medium pectin level. Makes sense to me!
The last two issues of BYO ? the July-August 2002 issue and the September 2002 issue ? contained a two-part article on fruit beers. Check these out for information on formulating and brewing fruit beers. I will tackle the question regarding pectin here. Pectin is a type of carbohydrate found in fruits that act as a structural member of the fruit, kind of like beta glucan in cereal grains. In cooking, pectin is useful for its ability to form a gel when heated in a sugar solution with a low pH. This is why jams and jellies are thick and stay on your toast or bagel instead of running off.
Although all fruits contain some pectin, many do not contain enough for making jams and jellies and many fruit spreads use pectin from other sources than the fruit being used. Certain varieties of apples, such as Granny Smith, are well-known for their especially high pectin contents.
When it comes to brewing and winemaking, pectin levels are usually kept low for two main reasons. The first is the haze pectin can cause; pectin hazes are due to the very large size of the pectin molecule and the tendency for the molecule to form gels. This is analogous to starch hazes. This is a cosmetic issue that some of us don?t worry too much about, depending on the beer style being made. My strawberry wheat beer was cloudy, but wheat beers are typically cloudy and the cloud looked cool in that beer. Cloudiness, these days, is in fashion and some of those wimpy malternatives, like Smirnoff Ice and Mike?s Hard Lemonade, actually include ingredients to make them permanently cloudy. A friend of mine was in a brewery that was making ? I dare not use the term ?brewing? ? some of these things and he saw a big container of something called ?cloud.? This was the special ingredient to make it look interesting. When you make a fruit beer at home, you can omit the ?cloud.?
The other thing about pectin is that filtration becomes very, very difficult. The reason for this is again the large size of the molecule and its gelling properties. I make a hard cider every year. A couple of years ago I set up the filter, sent the cider to it as I had done in the past and wham! ? the flow immediately slowed to a stop in a matter of seconds. When the filter was broken down, there was a distinctive orange film on the filter. Although the film was thin, it was so tight that cider simply could not pass through it.
The solution to this problem was to buy a liquid pectinase that I then added to the cider. Pectinase enzymes reduce the size of the pectin molecule and also prevent the fragments from gelling. About a week later, filtration was a breeze. What I should have done was to perform an easy test for pectin before filtration. To check for the presence of pectin, simply add one part of the wort, beer or wine to one part 70% alcohol. Ethanol and iso-propanol both work. I use iso-propanol (rubbing alcohol) because it?s cheap. This test will cause pectin to gel. When this occurs, the sample becomes cloudy and the pectin begins to precipitate and will eventually settle on the bottom of the sample glass.
Although this method is not quantitative, you can get a feel for the pectin concentration. If the haze is detectable, but very slight, you may decide not to worry. If the sample looks like orange juice after adding the alcohol, you probably will choose to deal with the pectin. Fortunately, it?s simple to address this problem. The easiest thing to do is to add some pectinase to the fruit mush before adding the fruit to your beer. You can use dry or liquid pectinase ? follow the recommendations with the enzyme regarding usage rate. The other approach to take, especially if you don?t like adding stuff unnecessarily to your beer, is to do a test after fermentation is complete and the fruit has been added. If the sample indicates a pectin problem, then add your enzyme at this stage.
As I stated earlier, all fruits contain some pectin. According to my handydandy book entitled ?Preserving? (1981, Time-Life Books), tart apples, citrus fruits, cranberries, currants, gooseberries and sour plums all have ?high? pectin levels. Interestingly, all of these fruits also rank high in natural acid levels and these fruits make great jams and jellies without requiring an exogenous (outside) source of pectin. Strawberries, peaches, pear, pineapple, apricots and rhubarb all have a low pectin content. Cherries, blueberries, blackberries and raspberries all have a medium level of pectin. I think I see a pattern here ? it seems like brewers typically make fruit beers with fruits that have a low-to-medium pectin level. Makes sense to me!