Comparison/substitution sugars for priming

[Travel by the Pint]

Assuming that the amount of priming sugar used during bottling depends on the particular style of beer being brewed, and that the specific quantity of priming sugar added depends on the particular sugar (corn sugar vs. DME, etc.), what is the best way to determine the amount of priming sugar to use when going an alternative route? Like brown sugar, or honey, or treacle?

My growing library of brewing books list alternative sugars and touches on some of their characteristics, but doesn't give sufficient information to determine the amount needed.

Would a calorie comparison get me within range, or is there a book on the market (or in the guild library) that gives those figures?

-Sally - brewing out in the cold, both literally and figuratively.

[klickcue]

CO2 is CO2.

So if you are bottling it does not make a difference, it is just what you have on your counter.

You will not gain much flavor in bottling with different sugars since the amount is so small.

There are different libraries for fermentables. Which sugar are you going to use?

Generally, Corn Sugar (Dextrose) and Cane/Beet sugar (Sucrose) are used. But, the amount will chance per your amount of process.

[Travel by the Pint]

I stumbled across this web site that seems to lay the groundwork I need to do calculations.

http://www.brewery.org/library/YPrimerMH.html

I looks like I'll need to do a few tests and layer in a bit of guesswork. But doable.

-Sally

[Travel by the Pint]

You will not gain much flavor in bottling with different sugars since the amount is so small.

Chris,

That may be true, but it's another variable that affects the outcome of the final product. I'm working on a few things now. First up for priming is a pumpkin ale. My base recipe (a published recipe that I've modified extensively) specified brown sugar for priming. But, as you know, American brown sugar is refined sugar cane with a bit of molasses added. My preference is not to impart the harsher flavors of molasses at any level, so I'm looking for an alternative. (Pondering something wild like agave syrup, but I'll probably change my mind 5 times before I bottle next weekend.)

Simultaneously I'm honing my recipe for oatmeal stout, which also calls for brown sugar - this time added at boil rather than used for priming. Same thing. I'd rather not add the harsh tones of molasses, so I'm leaning toward treacle, or... (TBD). With treacle, I've read that it should be added in much smaller quantities, so I'll tread lightly if I go that direction.

Much of this will be guesswork, but I'd like to get it as close to correct as possible straight out of the gate.

I've since found a web site that gives me a few hints as to how to go about that, which I posted a link to in another post on this thread.

Thanks!

-Sally

[Tom Turnbull]

What about turbinado sugar in place of brown sugar?

TomT

ed.....the Merc.

[Travel by the Pint]

What about turbinado sugar in place of brown sugar?

Also one of the alternative sugars I'm exploring! So many options!

[Travel by the Pint]

We opened the first of our priming sugar experiments this evening. It's a pumpkin ale, which the base recipe specified to use brown sugar. Instead, I opted to rack off 1/2 the batch and bottle it with one type of priming sugar, then rack off the remaining half using a second type of priming sugar. The two sugars were brown sugar as originally specified, and light agave syrup.
I can report that the type of priming sugar definitely impacts the flavors of the conditioned beer.
Even though I had to make an educated guess as to how much agave syrup to add, I pretty much nailed it. Carbonation is right where I want it to be, and is only slightly more carbonated than the brown sugar portion.
The brown sugar version has more pronounced highs in flavor over a plane of flat, whereas the agave syrup is rounder, more cohesive, and more balanced.
I won't be able to make the January meeting, but I'll try to save back a mixed six to share at the February meeting. No promises. This batch rocks!
-Sally

[JMcG]

Thinking brown sugar (with all the molasses) would definitely change the flavor profile. I think most people use a neutral sugar to avoid altering the flavor of the beer "as brewed". Sucrose or dextrose should give you reproducible results as they will contain a fixed amount of calories with minimal to none of additional flavor compounds. Other sources might vary depending on their purity or concentration. Like maple syrup can be very different tasting and have different sugar content depending on grade. Not sure what standards there are for agave and other sources. YMMV.
jim

[Blktre]

CO2 is CO2.



You will not gain much flavor in bottling with different sugars since the amount is so small.

Gotta disagree. Im sensitive to corn sugar when bottling. A real odd flavor that totally takes away from the original flavors of the beer. I thought this was the case years ago so I did a split batch where I force carbed and bottled the other half. This flavor component of the same batch was not in the forced portion but was prelevant in the bottled portion primed with corn sugar. I can to this day pick out someone else's beer that is primed with corn sugar. Weird huh?

[klickcue]

CO2 is CO2.



You will not gain much flavor in bottling with different sugars since the amount is so small.

Gotta disagree. Im sensitive to corn sugar when bottling. A real odd flavor that totally takes away from the original flavors of the beer. I thought this was the case years ago so I did a split batch where I force carbed and bottled the other half. This flavor component of the same batch was not in the forced portion but was prelevant in the bottled portion primed with corn sugar. I can to this day pick out someone else's beer that is primed with corn sugar. Weird huh?

I do find it interesting!

How about in beers such as Jolly Pumpkin that uses corn sugar when making beer?

[Rob Martin]

I don't bottle often anymore (actually about 1 batch/yr) but when we do, we use DME - preferably light.

[Blktre]

I do find it interesting!

How about in beers such as Jolly Pumpkin that uses corn sugar when making beer?

There is alot of other stuff going on with those beers. I bet the bugs eat all the nasty corn sugar flavors!

[Jensen]

I do find it interesting!

How about in beers such as Jolly Pumpkin that uses corn sugar when making beer?

There is alot of other stuff going on with those beers. I bet the bugs eat all the nasty corn sugar flavors!

That year old Nonge-Stone-Jolly Pumkin Christmas beer you shared last night definitely had "a lot of other stuff going on!" And is changing quite nicely in flavor profile over the last year. The nose is still very pronounced too. If there is corn sugar in there- I likey. Very tasty. Thanks for sharing Andy!

[Blktre]

Anytime Jeff.
I may add that those who bottle condition with corn sugar don't be afraid to use it. I'm one of the very few that can taste this weird flavor.

[Travel by the Pint]

I think it's definitely worth experimenting with alternatives to discover how it affects the final flavor profile, then choosing a priming sugar based on what characteristics you ultimately want your beer to have. I don't think there is anything wrong with corn sugar per se. But I do think it's used mostly out of habit, and perhaps we should think about priming sugars in the same way that people are beginning to think about yeasts - that different strains result in wildly different beers even when all else is common.
It almost makes me feel sorry for y'all who keg instead of bottle. You have one less tool in your toolbox.
-Sally