Reusing yeast questiong

[Rugger1978]

I'm brewing a 10 gallon batch of Oktoberfest-Marzen in a couple weeks and plan on reusing the yeast to ferment a 10 gallon batch of an Oktoberfest-Style Munich Helles afterwards. I will be doing a large multi step starter for this as it's a lager. My question is which is better:

1. Washing the yeast and reusing it for the Helles
2. Saving some of the yeast from the large starter from the Marzen and then using it with a new starter for the Helles?

Cheers,

Jared

[bneuen]

In my very un-experienced opinion (meaning I am likely wrong and you should see what some other more-experienced members think), I would say to wash the yeast from Marzen beer.

The reason I say this is because then your initial starter doesn't have to be as big (since all of it will be going into the Marzen instead of only a portion). Also, the portion that you save for the Helles, you have to keep until you are ready to brew the second beer, which means you may have to keep feeding it in the meantime (making more starter), and it could grow unwanted stuff in that time as well. If you wash and re-use the yeast, you are, in essence, using the Marzen to keep the yeast fed. I also have more faith in a full-fletched beer keeping out infection than a starter (long-term).

If you are doing a lager, then it sounds like it might be a while between beers. This should also be a consideration. Washing and re-using the yeast would force you to wait a while between beers, whereas saving part of the starter would probably mean you could start the second beer (Helles) sooner. Like I kind of indicated before, I would be wary of keeping a starter long-term. So if you plan on waiting a while between these two beers, I would go the washing and re-using route.

Like I said though, see what other members think.

-Bowe

[klickcue]

I'm brewing a 10 gallon batch of Oktoberfest-Marzen in a couple weeks and plan on reusing the yeast to ferment a 10 gallon batch of an Oktoberfest-Style Munich Helles afterwards. I will be doing a large multi step starter for this as it's a lager. My question is which is better:

1. Washing the yeast and reusing it for the Helles
2. Saving some of the yeast from the large starter from the Marzen and then using it with a new starter for the Helles?

Cheers,

Jared

Bowe brings up some good points.

If your are brewing back to back lagers, I would go with your #1 solution. The yeast will still be in good shape.

Wash your yeast, with boiled and cooled water, let it settle about 15 minutes and then pour off the suspended yeast solution into a sanitized container leaving the settled junk behind. Refrig the solution to let the suspended yeast settle. Check the volume of the settled slurry (a mason jar works good because it has a scale on the jar). Figure about 20ml of slurry equals about 100 billion cells. Use this number for your next pitching rate, against the SG, for your beer and you will be close.

As a point of reference, a White Labs container is 35ml. A settled container is about 20ml and a hard pack which has not been move in long while is about 15ml.

[Rugger1978]

Awesome thanks for the help!

[Rob Martin]

We are brewing a Schwarz Jan. 4. Typically, using Mr. Malty calculator, I will do 3-5 steps, the last step being approx 11 Liters (2.5 gal) in order to have the yeast pitch for the 10 gal 1.059 beer. Occassioanlly, we will reusue the yeast if are brewing on a 2-week cycle (brew, 2 weeks later brew 2nd batch, rack off first batch, put new sweet wort directly on yeast cake).

This time around, I'm wanting to brew a 5-gal 1.040 American Dark (18L) Lager as a step up to a 12 gal 1.059 Schwarz. We are brewing more 12 gal then 10 lately necesitating more yeast, and if I'm stepping up to a 2-3 gallon starter, I may as well brew a 5-gal lower gravity beer. However, by schedule is limiting me to brew the 5-gal step beer 3 weeks before the Schwarz.

What's your opinion? Brew the 5-gal, let it stay in primary for 3 weeks until Schwarz brew day and then place the Scwarz wort onto it, or rack off the 5-gal after 2 weeks and keep the yeast in a Mason jar until the third week?

[Steve Brown]

My opinion: primary three weeks. Reasons include less work overall, fewer opportunities for infection, no harm to the beer (e.g., risk for autolysis is generally overstated and takes far longer than three weeks: Palmer: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-3.html). For basic beers (everything I make), my typical schedule is three weeks as I primary, secondary, and brighten all-in-one.

--Steve

[Rob Martin]

I couldn't remember this word - autolysis.

Yeah, last night as I was driving home, I was thinking basically what you wrote Steve. I'm only gaining one week from transferring it. The additional exposure is not worth the very low chance of autolysis as I've come to understand takes a lot longer than most of us beleive.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[JMcG]

I believe rinsing the yeast just increases the chance of contamination compared to just harvesting it and re-pitching.
However, I usually don't pitch the whole cake. But, if you're second batch is a much higher gravity brew you might well need it all.
Chris's advice about the yeast amount will help guide you in calculating the "proper" amount.