Yeast Recommendation for Wheat-Wine?

[kevputo]

I'm planning to brew something in the neighborhood of Boulevard's Harvest Dance Wheat Wine, and was wondering if anybody had suggestions for what type of yeast to use for this.

I haven't finalized my recipe yet, but OG will be over 1.080. I'm thinking a Belgian strain to get some spiciness, but want to keep the fruity character on the low side. I'm considering the following so far:

White Labs 545 Belgian Strong Ale Yeast: http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp545.html
White Labs 550 Belgian Ale Yeast: http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp550.html

Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain ... cfm?ID=130
Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain ... cfm?ID=128

Anybody have experience with these strains, or suggestions for others I should look into?

Thanks,

Kevin

[JMcG]

Kevin,
I have used both of the wyeast strains and they will both throw a fair amount of esters (pear with 1388 and dark fruits with 1762). Lower temps might restrain that character, but you will risk stalling at lower temps. I haven't used either of those WLP's before.
You might just consider 1056 or 1272 if you want cleaner flavors and just pitch BIG and oxygenate.
jim

[Pentaquark]

What is the main distinction between 1056 and 1272, American v. American II?

(sorry to hijack your thread, kev. I'm sure your wheat wine will be great)

[JMcG]

Usually 1056 will be a bit cleaner, as in fewer esters. A little more attenuative, i.e., a little "drier". 1272 will also ferment dry, but is more responsive to fermentation temperatures, so you can ferment cool for "cleaner" flavors or ramp up for a few more estery notes. A little more versatile, IMO.
jim

[kevputo]

Thanks for the info Jim. I'm going to do one more round of sampling the "target" tonight, before I make a final decision, but I'm leaning towards your recommendation of 1056 or 1272. If nothing else, using one of those for this first attempt will give me a clear idea of what my grain & hop bill is giving me.

To make sure I have plenty of yeast, I was going to brew a blonde ale (or something else on the light/low-hopped side) as a "starter beer" at around 1.040-1.045, and rack the wheat wine onto the resultant yeast cake. That should prevent any problems with under pitching, right?

Thanks,

[JMcG]

When I use a yeast cake I usually don't pitch all of it and try to separate most of the trub. For a big beer like this you might need it all, though.
jim

[kevputo]

Mr. Malty's calculator says I'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 400mL of thin yeast slurry for a 5g batch of 1.090 beer. How much can you typically harvest from a 5g batch of a low-gravity beer? Seems like there's usually a ton of yeast on the bottom, but I've never measured it, and maybe there's more trub mixed in there than I realize? I haven't ever messed with re-using or washing yeast, so I really have no idea how much fallout to expect.

I'm also not sure which way I'm more likely to screw things up: getting off-flavors or other complications from leftover trub, or introducing a bug during the washing process. Using my laziness as a tie-breaker, I was leaning towards leaving the yeast & trub in the fermentor, and racking directly onto it.

What kind of side-effects should I expect from leaving the trub in with the yeast? Could most of those problems be avoided if I'm diligent about leaving most of the trub behind in the boil kettle? This starter beer will be pretty low cost as far as ingredients go, so I could just make it a slightly oversized batch, and plan on leaving about a gallon behind in the boil kettle rather than trying to get every last drop off of the trub after I chill it.

Thanks,

[Pentaquark]

In my experience, washing yeast is really, really easy and no harder or more risky than any other standard brewing step. I highly recommend it. After you take everything off the yeast cake, pour two quarts to a gallon of boiled, cooled water on top and then shake it all up. Wait a while till there is a dark cake on the bottom and a cloudy suspension above. The cake is the trub and the cloudy is the yeast. Pour/rack the suspension off and it's already really clean. I've heard of people washing multiple times but I've never needed to.

Given the little time/effort/danger involved, I would wash the yeast to get the trub off.

[JMcG]

In my experience, washing yeast is really, really easy and no harder or more risky than any other standard brewing step. I highly recommend it. After you take everything off the yeast cake, pour two quarts to a gallon of boiled, cooled water on top and then shake it all up. Wait a while till there is a dark cake on the bottom and a cloudy suspension above. The cake is the trub and the cloudy is the yeast. Pour/rack the suspension off and it's already really clean. I've heard of people washing multiple times but I've never needed to.

Given the little time/effort/danger involved, I would wash the yeast to get the trub off.

Yes, this.
Technically this is "rinsing" the yeast. "Washing" involves acidification, but I have never done that.

What I usually do is carefully rack almost all the beer off the cake, then swirl gently to rouse the yeast layer and leave the trub behind and pour it into a sanitized mason jar. Cap loosely, refrigerate and its good for 2-4 days as is. If keeping longer pour off old beer and feed some fresh wort (careful the lid is not tight!) Keeps up to another week.

When I pour the swirled yeast into the mason jar I usually get about half of the yeast and that works fine for a normal gravity beer.

You could also use part of it to make a starter and pitch both!

jim

[kevputo]

Alright, you guys have convinced me. I'll try my hand at rinsing & re-pitching.

Thanks for the explanations.