Water to mash ratio

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Jensen · #1 Post by **Jensen** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:20 pm

I'd like to know how much water people use for their dough-in water for the mash. You typically hear 1.2 to 2 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash process. Do most people follow some sort of regiment-- measuring the water to grain ratio for the mash, or do you pretty much use the same volume amount of water when you mash each time. Is there a difference if a pump is used during the mash-- as far as the ratio to use? Will extraction, or mouth feel be different if different amounts of water are used for mashing?

philip · #2 Post by **philip** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:24 pm

I've always done 1.2 to 1.5 quarts per pound rounded up to the nearest 1/2 gallon. I did that when I was doing infusion mashing and on the RIMS with a pump. The thicker ratio is for the more malt accentuated beers.

Jensen · #3 Post by **Jensen** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:21 pm

Thanks Phillip, I always wondered if there were differences with RIMS vs idle infusions... I need to do some comparison testing to see the differences with varing amounts of mash liquid... I have been one of those creatures of habit for quite some time... How do the rest of you mash with your water additions?

Bill · #4 Post by **Bill** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:53 am

Jensen wrote:I have been one of those creatures of habit for quite some time

A creature of habit indeed. I mash at 1.25/lb for every batch, regardless, but if I look at the mash and I think it needs more water, I just simply add more water. No reason other than the way I think the mash "looks".
I have never mashed below 1.25/lb. I've always felt that it would give me bad conversion. Again, no science to it, just my thinking.

I haven't dug deep enough into the subtle nuances of brewing yet. I'm still working on replicating my brews. Right now I'm focusing on my ESB and my Pale Ale. These are going to be my standard offerings at the house. The ESB I think is tweaked pretty good. Needs more color (usually sitting at 6 to 7 SRM), but the Pale Ale still needs some work.

philip wrote:The thicker ratio is for the more malt accentuated beers.

so you are saying that a thicker mash results in a higher malt profile than a thinner mash?
How does this work?

Reading this thread has caused me to realize that I need to get my own copy of Designing Great Beers and I also want to get the latest How to Brew by Palmer. Amazon here I come!

philip · #5 Post by **philip** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:43 pm

Bill wrote:
philip wrote:The thicker ratio is for the more malt accentuated beers.
so you are saying that a thicker mash results in a higher malt profile than a thinner mash?
How does this work?

That's the general theory. How does it work? Hm, well I'd have to dig the books out again for that answer.

l_townbrewer · #6 Post by **l_townbrewer** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:21 pm

From what I have learned the main factor is producing a mash environment that favors alpha or beta-amylase to convert starch molecules to fermentable sugars.

If the mash favors beta-amylase you will end up with a more fermentable wort. Whereas a mash that favors alpha-amylase will yield more extract but will have more dextrins and complex sugars that are unfermentable.

First, Liquor:Grist ratio is the least important factor affecting fermentability. Temperature is the most important and will create the most significant difference.

Alpha-amylase temp limit is 158 F.
Beta-amylase temp range is 131-149 F.
Above these limits each enzyme is quickly denatured and will no longer convert starches to sugar.

The general rules are:
lower mash temp = more fermentability but less body. favors b-amylase
higher mash temp = less fermentability but more body. favors a-amylase

If you did two mashes at a temperature that would not significantly denature beta-amylase then:
A thicker mash will favor b-amylase while a thinner mash will favor a-amylase activity.

The catch is when the mash is at extremes, too thick such as 1:1, then the enzymes will be inhibited and will not be able to efficiently come into contact with all of the available sugars and thus will inhibit the rate of conversion. Too thin such as 4+:1 then the enzymes lose stability and become denatured. The art is in finding the balance between the requirements of each enzyme.

My general rule on L:G ratios providing the temp range is conducive to both enzymes to work is:
1.5-2:1 = more fermentables, less body
2.5-3:1 = moderate levels of fermentability and body
3.5-4:1 = less fermentable but more body

Just realize you will most likely be seeing the biggest result from the temp being lower and not necessarily so much because of your mash thickness.

Long answer but I guess I had to learn something at brew school.

Blktre · #7 Post by **Blktre** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:16 pm

l_townbrewer wrote: The art is in finding the balance between the requirements of each enzyme.

And understanding this great info. Dustin just posted as it also correlates to different styles.....FWIW, i go by mash temp. and less on L:G ratio too. I will usually mash longer on stiff mashes as it seems this effects conversion to some degree, meaning it might take longer for your targeted enzymes to convert the thicker the mash is.....did brew school Dustin talk about that by chance?