2575_PC Kolsch II
3191-PC Berliner Weisse Blend
VSS July-Sept
Moderator: Officers
VSS July-Sept
2252-PC Rasenmaher Lagerbier
2575_PC Kolsch II
3191-PC Berliner Weisse Blend
2575_PC Kolsch II
3191-PC Berliner Weisse Blend
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: VSS July-Sept
I want all three 
The usefulness of opinion is itself matter of opinion.
Primum Brewery
Primum Brewery
Re: VSS July-Sept
ditto.
Re: VSS July-Sept
Same on this end.
Idea (yes...duck)
How about I saunter down to the local brewing establishment, purchase said yeast, culture said yeast on plates and slants and we can all split the cost? If you want me to grow it out for you in a stater, just cover the cost of food and I am cool with that.
Split the cost and add what looks to be 3 very cool yeast to the bank.
Anyone interested?
Idea (yes...duck)
How about I saunter down to the local brewing establishment, purchase said yeast, culture said yeast on plates and slants and we can all split the cost? If you want me to grow it out for you in a stater, just cover the cost of food and I am cool with that.
Split the cost and add what looks to be 3 very cool yeast to the bank.
Anyone interested?
BEFORE THERE WAS MATHEMATICS, RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY OR CULTURE...THERE WAS BEER.
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
Re: VSS July-Sept
Me, me, me....
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
Re: VSS July-Sept
I'd love to be in on the 2252-PC Rasenmaher Lagerbier, but my chest freezer shot craps on me a few days ago and I now have no way to lager. 
Looking into getting a new freezer.
Looking into getting a new freezer.
Thanks!
--Bill
all your mash are belong to us
--Bill
all your mash are belong to us
Re: VSS July-Sept
Sounds good. I do have a concern about culturing a blend such as the 3191. This blend is a German Sac. strain and a Lacto strain blended in precise amounts. The idea is to build a starter from a smacker then pitch directly into the wort. I'm not a yeast rancher but common sense tells me when plating you need to be able to ID each strain. Is this easy to do?
Yea, lets do it.
Yea, lets do it.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: VSS July-Sept
The strains will not grow together in the same proportion they are blended due to competitive interactions. Ideally, they would be plated and then could be separated by their different colony appearance, then grown in pure culture. The trick would be in re-producing the proper ratio when subsequently growing starters for pitching. A challenge to the microbiologist/brewer.
jim
jim
Re: VSS July-Sept
Jim,
I was thinking of doing PCR and western blot on the original to get the the allelic profile, quadrant culture the original, separate out single colonies, PCR the individual colonies and then mix in proportionate ratio...then run PCR/western on final mix and compare to original control....
No if I can just get the PCR heat block and gel electrophoresis off of ebay, we are in business.
Or just shell out the $8.
hmmm
Jason
I was thinking of doing PCR and western blot on the original to get the the allelic profile, quadrant culture the original, separate out single colonies, PCR the individual colonies and then mix in proportionate ratio...then run PCR/western on final mix and compare to original control....
No if I can just get the PCR heat block and gel electrophoresis off of ebay, we are in business.
Or just shell out the $8.
hmmm
Jason
BEFORE THERE WAS MATHEMATICS, RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY OR CULTURE...THERE WAS BEER.
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
Re: VSS July-Sept
E-bay, huh? Sounds like a great addition to "Jason Labs" 
I'm just wondering if the bugs will grow in the same proportion they were mixed and, if they don't, how that will affect the final product. I thought that the relative p[itching rate and/or timing of the Lacto would make a difference. I'm a newbie and have never done a beer with bugs, but am interested in the Berliner and probably some other sours. Any advice from you more experienced brewers is welcome.
I just thought maybe plating the mix on a petri dish would allow separating the organisms for maintenence as well as showing their relative numbers. Just the size and shape of the colonies (morphology) should suffice to approximate a ratio. Maintaining them separately should improve their longterm viability. There could be competitive and inhibitory factors preventing one or the other from thriving together. Like those slants that Chris posted.
jim
I'm just wondering if the bugs will grow in the same proportion they were mixed and, if they don't, how that will affect the final product. I thought that the relative p[itching rate and/or timing of the Lacto would make a difference. I'm a newbie and have never done a beer with bugs, but am interested in the Berliner and probably some other sours. Any advice from you more experienced brewers is welcome.
I just thought maybe plating the mix on a petri dish would allow separating the organisms for maintenence as well as showing their relative numbers. Just the size and shape of the colonies (morphology) should suffice to approximate a ratio. Maintaining them separately should improve their longterm viability. There could be competitive and inhibitory factors preventing one or the other from thriving together. Like those slants that Chris posted.
jim
Re: VSS July-Sept
I already gave Jason a heads up before reading this post; since he already has all the yeast and bugs to create a Berliner blend pretty much like Wyeast is releasing.
Maybe Jason will ponder what he has.
Basically, you want more parts of Lacto than yeast with a smaller part of brett B. (woody). More acidic, replace the brett B. with brett L. (more leather and cherry). A ratio of 3:2:1 (Lacto,yeast WY1007, brett) would be close. You might even go 4:2:1 for a blend.
Then again, Jensen could pop in for his recipe of the way that he is doing it as an experiment with separate yeasts, at different times of addition instead of a blend.
I like the timing method of growing up a large starter of Lacto, then adding yeast and finally adding brett X.
Maybe Jason will ponder what he has.
Basically, you want more parts of Lacto than yeast with a smaller part of brett B. (woody). More acidic, replace the brett B. with brett L. (more leather and cherry). A ratio of 3:2:1 (Lacto,yeast WY1007, brett) would be close. You might even go 4:2:1 for a blend.
Then again, Jensen could pop in for his recipe of the way that he is doing it as an experiment with separate yeasts, at different times of addition instead of a blend.
I like the timing method of growing up a large starter of Lacto, then adding yeast and finally adding brett X.
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: VSS July-Sept
I posted this over at BB. Im sure we will get some comments...
http://www.brews-bros.com/index.php/top ... g-a-blend/
http://www.brews-bros.com/index.php/top ... g-a-blend/
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: VSS July-Sept
Chris,
As I have not brewed with the bugs you gave me, just have kept them fed and happy...here is my newbie bug question....
If the Yeast producer provides this "blend" in a smack pack, are they assuming the brewer will make a traditional starter, or smack the bag and add to brew. Well either one opens up a bit of a conundrum...
1- If the components of the smack pack are truly competitive inhibitors of each others growth, then they must maintain their original ratios during ANY growth, be it in a smack pack or in the wort or will one take over and suppress the other?
2- Or is it possible to achieve a homeostatic equilibrium of different bugs/yeast such that they will keep each other in a proper ratio during the growth cycle?
If #2 is the case, one should be able to to grow a starter. If #1 is true, then it is pitch and prey. If a bit of both are true...I !@#$ing give up
The literature (Wyeast site does not list the 3191-PC, not that I could find) indicates a slow start and the need for a long lagering time. This makes seance, as the yeast and bugs will do their things at different times. I just have not brewed with the bugs to know...
A Very Confused Jason.
As I have not brewed with the bugs you gave me, just have kept them fed and happy...here is my newbie bug question....
If the Yeast producer provides this "blend" in a smack pack, are they assuming the brewer will make a traditional starter, or smack the bag and add to brew. Well either one opens up a bit of a conundrum...
1- If the components of the smack pack are truly competitive inhibitors of each others growth, then they must maintain their original ratios during ANY growth, be it in a smack pack or in the wort or will one take over and suppress the other?
2- Or is it possible to achieve a homeostatic equilibrium of different bugs/yeast such that they will keep each other in a proper ratio during the growth cycle?
If #2 is the case, one should be able to to grow a starter. If #1 is true, then it is pitch and prey. If a bit of both are true...I !@#$ing give up
The literature (Wyeast site does not list the 3191-PC, not that I could find) indicates a slow start and the need for a long lagering time. This makes seance, as the yeast and bugs will do their things at different times. I just have not brewed with the bugs to know...
A Very Confused Jason.
BEFORE THERE WAS MATHEMATICS, RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY OR CULTURE...THERE WAS BEER.
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
In Primary:............. None (how sad is that?)
In Secondary:..........None...see above
On Tap: ..........Barley Wine from 2006, BGSA from 2006...
Re: VSS July-Sept
The yeast and bugs are not fighting each other, they are forming a symbiotic relationship.
Lacto cells are small compared to yeast cells. A starter is a good idea to take over the wort.
By working together, the yeasts and Lacto consume more carbohydrates than any one microbial could consume by itself.
As the pH drops each cell comes into it's growth area and as the carbohydrates are consumed into smaller pieces more food is made available.
Lacto cells are small compared to yeast cells. A starter is a good idea to take over the wort.
By working together, the yeasts and Lacto consume more carbohydrates than any one microbial could consume by itself.
As the pH drops each cell comes into it's growth area and as the carbohydrates are consumed into smaller pieces more food is made available.
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris