Wyeat 3191 techniques
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Wyeat 3191 techniques
Anyone use 3191 Berliner-Weisse strain from Wyeast? Do you think a starter is useful for this smack? If going to let age for 3-6 months: rack to another container after a month or so and keg after six months, or keg after a month or so and let it just age that way?
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Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
If you are doing more than 5 gallons, then I would think a starter would be helpful for the Sacc and let the Lacto and Brett produce at their own speed over months.
If you want some vinegar character from the Brett don't use an airlock or vent the keg to allow a little O2 in while the brew is aging.
Once the Sacc finishes, you can do about anything you want as far as storage since the Brett and Lacto will carry over.
Have fun with it
If you want some vinegar character from the Brett don't use an airlock or vent the keg to allow a little O2 in while the brew is aging.
Once the Sacc finishes, you can do about anything you want as far as storage since the Brett and Lacto will carry over.
Have fun with it
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I'm going to make a starter with mine for a 10g batch.
I'm also going to ferment and age in HDPE is my plan.
I'm also going to ferment and age in HDPE is my plan.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I cant remember who told me at the last meeting, maybe John. He said that it is not recommend to make a starter with this strain. I have looked on-line and cannot seem to find anything saying yeah or nay. 
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Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
From Wyeast...
This says to me that the proper blend of Sac. and Lacto are already there. Making a starter could throw off this ratio a bit. Im just not sure the growth rates between the two. How much are you going to brew Jeff? Maybe its best just to brew 5g without a starter instead of stepping it up for 10g.When this blend is used, expect a slow start to fermentation as the yeast and bacteria in the blend is balanced to allow proper acid production.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
Blktre wrote: Maybe its best just to brew 5g without a starter instead of stepping it up for 10g.
That is kinda the impression I get too. Think it'll be just five.
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Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
Guess I'm in the same boat.Jensen wrote:Blktre wrote: Maybe its best just to brew 5g without a starter instead of stepping it up for 10g.
That is kinda the impression I get too. Think it'll be just five.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
5 gallon would be the ideal start or 2 packs for 10 gallons. Thinking backwards, you would not throw a pack into 250,000 gallons of wort and expect very much (hopefully notJensen wrote:Blktre wrote: Maybe its best just to brew 5g without a starter instead of stepping it up for 10g.
That is kinda the impression I get too. Think it'll be just five.
).Still thinking backwards. Lacto is anaerobic so it needs the faster O2 reduction that Sacc gives it. The Sacc will consume the O2 in just a few hours to develop it's cell walls to produce daughter cells and it will then go anaerobic and start producing alcohol. The pH is dropping with the activity.
Convention says that 3 part Lacto to 1 part Sacc. The Sacc uses up the O2 so both the Lacto and Sacc go into anaerobic fermentation. With Brett, it will also start anaerobic fermentation.
The Brett (which is slow growing) will also start creating anaerobic alcohol. With the presents of O2 from an HDPE plastic, the Brett will start forming acetic acid (vinegar) and start reproducing.
To me Lacto equals Tart. Acetic equals Sour. I am not much of a vinegar fan, so I keep the O2 away.
The Oak barrel will be a new adventure for me and looking forward, blending seems apparent.
Have you ever thought of Pedio with Brett? Brett is the street sweeper in this case.
As I said, Have fun it!
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
Try this:
Get a little container of Lactic Acid and some Cider Vinegar. Dose the beer and decide which you like better.
Let your taste buds decide.
Get a little container of Lactic Acid and some Cider Vinegar. Dose the beer and decide which you like better.
Let your taste buds decide.
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I don't know that I have done a five gallon batch on the current system before. All that room in mash tun... Even though it is a rims and I want to do a protein rest on this Beliner Wiesse, why not bring up to temp from the protein to scarification with all of the hot liquor water, and circulate for the hour long rest. Thus no sparge, as letting to the boil kettle. It is such a small grain bill in the mash tun-- with all that room... Any foreseen problems with this approach?
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Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I wouldn't even worry about a protein rest.
Take the mash to 145 - 149 dF and go.
The Lacto and Brett will take care of it all and leave a brilliant beer.
Take the mash to 145 - 149 dF and go.
The Lacto and Brett will take care of it all and leave a brilliant beer.
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I agree Chris, that now days it is not really necessary. Attenuation should not be a problem with this style. Some nuances do come from some mashing regimes. Quite a few of the German breweries do a p rest, and Wyeast's site recommends one for their BW recipe:
Berliner Weisse
Berliner weisse brewing techniques are similar to most German brewing techniques. The main difference is decoction mashing is not used to achieve the temperature steps in the mash. Modern Berliner weisse breweries now use multiple step infusion mashes. None of the brewing techniques for this brew are necessarily done to promote the special microorganisms used to produce this style, except for temperature control during fermentation. If fermentation temperature exceeds 68oF, the Lactobacillus may produce too much acid too quickly and retard the performance of the ale yeast. The following is an example of the brewing techniques used for Berliner weisse.
Malt Bill
Malted Wheat 50-70%
Light malted barley 30-50%
No Specialty Malts
Mashing
Mash in all malts at 122°F and rest for 30 minutes.
Heat mash to 144°F and rest for 15 minutes.
Heat mash to 149°F and rest for 20 minutes.
Heat mash to 162°F and rest for 15 minutes.
Heat mash to 172°F and rest for 10 minutes.
Sparge at 172°F until kettle is full (1.022-1.028 Specific gravity)
Boiling
Boil 60-90 minutes. Add hops (German variety such as Hallertauer or Perle) at the beginning and end of the boil to achieve 4-6 IBUs.
Cool wort to 60°F.
Fermentation
Pitch with combined culture.
Alt or Kolsch ale yeast (Wyeast 1007 or 2565 respectively)
Lactobacillus (Wyeast 5335)
5 parts yeast : 1 part bacteria
Ferment consistently at 60 degrees for 4-6 days.
This all being said, and such a small batch size to spot-on control mash temps I am going to give it a try. My main question is the no sparge aspect on the batch.
Berliner Weisse
Berliner weisse brewing techniques are similar to most German brewing techniques. The main difference is decoction mashing is not used to achieve the temperature steps in the mash. Modern Berliner weisse breweries now use multiple step infusion mashes. None of the brewing techniques for this brew are necessarily done to promote the special microorganisms used to produce this style, except for temperature control during fermentation. If fermentation temperature exceeds 68oF, the Lactobacillus may produce too much acid too quickly and retard the performance of the ale yeast. The following is an example of the brewing techniques used for Berliner weisse.
Malt Bill
Malted Wheat 50-70%
Light malted barley 30-50%
No Specialty Malts
Mashing
Mash in all malts at 122°F and rest for 30 minutes.
Heat mash to 144°F and rest for 15 minutes.
Heat mash to 149°F and rest for 20 minutes.
Heat mash to 162°F and rest for 15 minutes.
Heat mash to 172°F and rest for 10 minutes.
Sparge at 172°F until kettle is full (1.022-1.028 Specific gravity)
Boiling
Boil 60-90 minutes. Add hops (German variety such as Hallertauer or Perle) at the beginning and end of the boil to achieve 4-6 IBUs.
Cool wort to 60°F.
Fermentation
Pitch with combined culture.
Alt or Kolsch ale yeast (Wyeast 1007 or 2565 respectively)
Lactobacillus (Wyeast 5335)
5 parts yeast : 1 part bacteria
Ferment consistently at 60 degrees for 4-6 days.
This all being said, and such a small batch size to spot-on control mash temps I am going to give it a try. My main question is the no sparge aspect on the batch.
**Podcasts are a way of multi-tasking.**
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I'm doing a no boil. Planning on using some raw wheat and pils malt. The raw wheat is for the lacto to have something to chew on. No specialties.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I don't care whether it is sparge or no-sparge, it is all about the sugar. A ~1.037 SG wort is all that you are looking for.
Symbiosis is the key.
Symbiosis is the key.
Have Fun!
Chris
Chris
Re: Wyeat 3191 techniques
I also think its about wort profile and the type of sugar so to speak for the lacto.klickcue wrote:I don't care whether it is sparge or no-sparge, it is all about the sugar. A ~1.037 SG wort is all that you are looking for.
Symbiosis is the key.
Just call me Andy!
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough
Lupulin Threshold Shift
lupulin threshold shift \lu·pu·lin thresh·old shift\ n
1. When a once extraordinarily hoppy beer now seems pedestrian.
2. The phenomenon a person has when craving more bitterness in beer.
3. The long-term exposure to extremely hoppy beers; if excessive or prolonged, a habitual dependence on hops will occur.
4. When a "Double IPA" just is not enough