OK.
Brewed a batch of the Holiday Humbug Mojo last Sunday. Used almost 2 lbs. more malt than ever before (Alexanders dark--I'm still an extract brewer). Used not the usual 2 pkgs (7gm) of dry Coopers yeast but 3 pkgs.
Took off within hours instead of almost a day like many other brews (YAY!). Kept firing like a machine gun through the night & was still going strong when I left for work Monday morning (YAY).
Came home & it had stopped altogether (OK, no problem, I'll wait a few more days before transferring to glass secondary).
Took a reading yesterday & found out it had only dropped 36 points where a 'usual' batch of Humbug drops anywhere from at least around 45 to last years batch which dropped 59.
!@#@!
Original starting gravity was around the same (1.076) as some of the other batches (last years was 1.082) so that 'checked'.
Added another package of Coopers dry yeast yesterday, stirred the fermenter, put the lid back on and as of 18 hours now....................
NOTHING!
Which leads me to my questions:
I've been able to get a close match on the starting gravities of all my brews regardless of style but there's never been a consistent rhyme or reason on the point drop after the primary fermenter.
I've almost always used Coopers dry yeast as when I did use the Wyeast slap packs a few times there was no noticeable difference to justify the extra expense.
Soooooooooo.................
1. Why the inconsistency in the point drop in the primary fermenter from batch to batch and more importantly.............
2. What the hell happened to the Humbug that using more malt & more yeast should have (at least or so I thought) resulted in a similar point drop in the primary and what's the deal with the 4th package of Coopers not fermenting at all????????????????????
(All packages of Coopers used in the Humbug were less than a year old & stored in 4 freezer bags except the 4th package which was purchased from Ale & Vino less than a month ago.)
Suggestions or am I just going to have to accept a less than usual oomph Humbug?
Consistent fermentation?? HA!!!
Moderator: Officers
Temps
Temperatures have been about the same for all batches:
Starts out around 78-82 & stays there during the "high-bloopin'" then cools down to room temp (around 68-72) afterwards.
As for the Humbug, it did the same and there has been no significant temp change after adding the fourth package of recently bought Coopers.
At this point I'm thinking I just wasted a package of Coopers yeast.
!@#%#@!
Starts out around 78-82 & stays there during the "high-bloopin'" then cools down to room temp (around 68-72) afterwards.
As for the Humbug, it did the same and there has been no significant temp change after adding the fourth package of recently bought Coopers.
At this point I'm thinking I just wasted a package of Coopers yeast.
!@#%#@!
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Greenblood
- Brewmaster
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- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:22 pm
- Location: Lawrence
I am confused, you used 2 lbs more malt extract (Dry or liquid?) yet ended up with a lower starting SG (1.076) than the last batch (1.082)? 2lbs of extract is quite a bit of fermentable, and I would expect to see that difference pretty clearly in the SG.
Are you proofing your dry yeast before pitching?
I do not know what the alcohol tolerance of Coopers is, but adding additional dry yeast to a solution that is already at 4.725 ABV may or may not produce any results. You may consider making a starter to beef up the yeast, then pitch it in when it is going strong.
Making sure you have good aeration before pitch is also very important.
I don't know that there is one definitive answer here. You might post up the recipe so we can have a look.
Are you proofing your dry yeast before pitching?
I do not know what the alcohol tolerance of Coopers is, but adding additional dry yeast to a solution that is already at 4.725 ABV may or may not produce any results. You may consider making a starter to beef up the yeast, then pitch it in when it is going strong.
Making sure you have good aeration before pitch is also very important.
I don't know that there is one definitive answer here. You might post up the recipe so we can have a look.
Cheers!
John Monaghan
"If your feelings were grapes I would crush them. And then, after fermentation, drink them down. And quite possibly later, throw them up again."
John Monaghan
"If your feelings were grapes I would crush them. And then, after fermentation, drink them down. And quite possibly later, throw them up again."
Get good aeration before pitching always, stirred up like hell with foam & bubbles galore before pitching the yeast and shutting the lid.
Whaddya mean, 'proofing' the dry yeast?
The 2 lbs. extra was extract (Alexanders dark).
The inconsistent drop in gravity has happened across all recipes (Humbug, bitter, porter, stout) with the same type of scenario i.e., starting gravity within a few points of all batches of whatever style, temps in the aforementioned range during primary fermentation and always a crapshoot as far as the total drop in gravity points.
Standard in all recipes has been 2 packages of Coopers which usually gives me a drop of around 40 in most styles and 50 in the ones with more malt or sugars (cherries, honey). Coopers has been more consistent in the initial takeoff of the yeast some hours after pitching unlike my early years when other dry yeasts sometimes wouldn't start until 24-48 hours after pitching.
Yes, I too was disappointed in the starting gravity of this batch of Humbug but have learned to expect a consistent starting gravity, it's just getting a consistent drop in gravity that has always eluded me.
Oh well, at least it tasted 'drinkable' when I sampled it Saturday before adding the extra Coopers.
Whaddya mean, 'proofing' the dry yeast?
The 2 lbs. extra was extract (Alexanders dark).
The inconsistent drop in gravity has happened across all recipes (Humbug, bitter, porter, stout) with the same type of scenario i.e., starting gravity within a few points of all batches of whatever style, temps in the aforementioned range during primary fermentation and always a crapshoot as far as the total drop in gravity points.
Standard in all recipes has been 2 packages of Coopers which usually gives me a drop of around 40 in most styles and 50 in the ones with more malt or sugars (cherries, honey). Coopers has been more consistent in the initial takeoff of the yeast some hours after pitching unlike my early years when other dry yeasts sometimes wouldn't start until 24-48 hours after pitching.
Yes, I too was disappointed in the starting gravity of this batch of Humbug but have learned to expect a consistent starting gravity, it's just getting a consistent drop in gravity that has always eluded me.
Oh well, at least it tasted 'drinkable' when I sampled it Saturday before adding the extra Coopers.
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Greenblood
- Brewmaster
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- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:22 pm
- Location: Lawrence
I would check the calibration of your hydrometer. If you are adding more malt but getting a lower starting gravity, something is wrong with your measurement, which may be causing you difficulty with your final gravity readings as well.
There are references out there about how to make a known gravity liquid, but I would just start with distilled water at the temp the hydrometer is calibrated to, it should read 1.000.
Good luck.
Joe Yoder
There are references out there about how to make a known gravity liquid, but I would just start with distilled water at the temp the hydrometer is calibrated to, it should read 1.000.
Good luck.
Joe Yoder
Thanks all!
Been using the same hydrometer I got in the 'kit' from Bob's Lawrence homebrewing place on 7th street (the old H&R Block tax bunker) back in '95 whatever that may tell you.
As for the proofing info, thanks however I always thought the wort had to be under 80 degrees or you'd kill the yeasties. The proofing recipe says use warm (95-105 degree) water. Ya mean to tell me all these years I could've pitched at 100 degree wort with no harm & saved all that cold water in the copper coils down the drain??
I'll start proofing the yeast but since my main reason for beginning to homebrew years ago was because I couldn't afford the store-bought imported and microbrewed styles I liked (or we couldn't even GET them in KS) and now I CAN afford to drink what my tastebuds demand, in two more batches when I run out of ingredients I'm thinking of selling off all the equipment & bottles. It's just become more hassle than it's worth.
Stay tuned folks, I've only got extract brewing equipment but I've got a 10 gal (with spigot & lid) brewpot, propane burner stand & tank, 2-6 1/2 gal. glass carboys, 2-8 gal. plastic primary buckets, 7 gal (with spigot) bottling bucket, bottle washer and bottle tree with nine branches not to mention all the various hop bags, cappers, mini kegs & mini keg tappers (hand pump & whippet style too), siphons, Grolsch rubber rings, caps, brass carboy washer for faucet, fermenter bubblers & corks, etc. etc. etc. not to mention dozens of 22 ounce Fischer bottles (porcelain stopper), liter bottles (porcelain stopper), about 6 mini kegs & other various bottles & if I decide to close up Baseball Bat Homebrewing Co. it's all gonna go!
As for the proofing info, thanks however I always thought the wort had to be under 80 degrees or you'd kill the yeasties. The proofing recipe says use warm (95-105 degree) water. Ya mean to tell me all these years I could've pitched at 100 degree wort with no harm & saved all that cold water in the copper coils down the drain??
I'll start proofing the yeast but since my main reason for beginning to homebrew years ago was because I couldn't afford the store-bought imported and microbrewed styles I liked (or we couldn't even GET them in KS) and now I CAN afford to drink what my tastebuds demand, in two more batches when I run out of ingredients I'm thinking of selling off all the equipment & bottles. It's just become more hassle than it's worth.
Stay tuned folks, I've only got extract brewing equipment but I've got a 10 gal (with spigot & lid) brewpot, propane burner stand & tank, 2-6 1/2 gal. glass carboys, 2-8 gal. plastic primary buckets, 7 gal (with spigot) bottling bucket, bottle washer and bottle tree with nine branches not to mention all the various hop bags, cappers, mini kegs & mini keg tappers (hand pump & whippet style too), siphons, Grolsch rubber rings, caps, brass carboy washer for faucet, fermenter bubblers & corks, etc. etc. etc. not to mention dozens of 22 ounce Fischer bottles (porcelain stopper), liter bottles (porcelain stopper), about 6 mini kegs & other various bottles & if I decide to close up Baseball Bat Homebrewing Co. it's all gonna go!
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Greenblood
- Brewmaster
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:22 pm
- Location: Lawrence
Keeping in mind.............
If & when I make a decision it'll probably be closer to the end of the year if not next year/spring.
Also, got the copper-coil wort-chiller and other various homebrew-helper items like a Phils siphon gizmo, etc. if I pull the trigger.
John, PMed you about the mini-kegs.
Transferred the Humbug to the glass secondary tonight &...........................................................................................
..................abso****inlooootelly NO change in gravity!!
**** it! This batch of Humbug (to be imbibed next year) just won't be nearly as strong enough to defend itself as I'd hoped. Oh, well.
Also, got the copper-coil wort-chiller and other various homebrew-helper items like a Phils siphon gizmo, etc. if I pull the trigger.
John, PMed you about the mini-kegs.
Transferred the Humbug to the glass secondary tonight &...........................................................................................
..................abso****inlooootelly NO change in gravity!!
**** it! This batch of Humbug (to be imbibed next year) just won't be nearly as strong enough to defend itself as I'd hoped. Oh, well.
Hallelujah!Brothers & Sisters, Friends of the Revolution
The Humbug is fermenting again.........
WOO HOO!
Noticed some unusual-looking growth-type spots on top of wort in carboy Sunday.
Noticed more of the same yesterday.
& tonight??
Foam completely over the surface of the top of the wort with intermittent bubbles & the airlock is faintly, sweetly, ever so infrequently blooping at me!
I may get my usual drop in gravity yet!!
WOO HOO!
Noticed some unusual-looking growth-type spots on top of wort in carboy Sunday.
Noticed more of the same yesterday.
& tonight??
Foam completely over the surface of the top of the wort with intermittent bubbles & the airlock is faintly, sweetly, ever so infrequently blooping at me!
I may get my usual drop in gravity yet!!
I dunno.
Temperature sticker on the carboy hasn't moved too much out of the 68-72 range when I transferred it last Thurs.
This isn't the first time I've had a batch of (you name it) take off days or even weeks after transferring so it's not unprecedented.
In fact, after the first time I saw one take off two weeks into the secondary glass carboy, it's been the reason I've always waited twice as long in the primary & secondary (& now tertiary and even fourthiary {quadrupliary?}) fermenters before bottling.
Temperature sticker on the carboy hasn't moved too much out of the 68-72 range when I transferred it last Thurs.
This isn't the first time I've had a batch of (you name it) take off days or even weeks after transferring so it's not unprecedented.
In fact, after the first time I saw one take off two weeks into the secondary glass carboy, it's been the reason I've always waited twice as long in the primary & secondary (& now tertiary and even fourthiary {quadrupliary?}) fermenters before bottling.
A temperature issue was my first guess... and in my experience, those temperature stickers aren't worth the plastic they're made of. Just my 2 cents.
Temperature is pretty much my only nemesis yet to conquer. I've got sanitation down, my water is filtered and never a problem, but temperature control remains an issue. It's worse in the summer than the winter when things get too hot and I have to worry about esters, etc.
That's why my next project (once I've got this rig finished) is to build a cooler box like Jensen and Clint have. I found a window AC unit on the cheap recently, and plywood is easy to come by. I should even be able to lager that way -- which is something I've never been able to do before.
But I digress -- Mr. Blues -- if your fermentations are dropping below happy yeast temperatures, you might want to consider a heating wrap. I'd be curious how you fare with it if you do (or anyone else who uses them), because I've considered getting one or two myself for the winters when it *can* get a bit cool in my place. (I'm never cold enough to turn on the heat.)
The kind I'd recommend is the Fermwrap one seen on this page:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/temp-control.html
Supposedly those are safe for use on glass fermenters -- and assuming you use glass carboys, you definitely want to make sure the ones you use are recommended for use on glass. I've heard some real horror stories about the belt kind that break glass -- I imagine they're not a very even heat either. Let me know if you end up getting one. I'd LOVE to hear a review on it from you, or anyone else who uses them.
Temperature is pretty much my only nemesis yet to conquer. I've got sanitation down, my water is filtered and never a problem, but temperature control remains an issue. It's worse in the summer than the winter when things get too hot and I have to worry about esters, etc.
That's why my next project (once I've got this rig finished) is to build a cooler box like Jensen and Clint have. I found a window AC unit on the cheap recently, and plywood is easy to come by. I should even be able to lager that way -- which is something I've never been able to do before.
But I digress -- Mr. Blues -- if your fermentations are dropping below happy yeast temperatures, you might want to consider a heating wrap. I'd be curious how you fare with it if you do (or anyone else who uses them), because I've considered getting one or two myself for the winters when it *can* get a bit cool in my place. (I'm never cold enough to turn on the heat.)
The kind I'd recommend is the Fermwrap one seen on this page:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/temp-control.html
Supposedly those are safe for use on glass fermenters -- and assuming you use glass carboys, you definitely want to make sure the ones you use are recommended for use on glass. I've heard some real horror stories about the belt kind that break glass -- I imagine they're not a very even heat either. Let me know if you end up getting one. I'd LOVE to hear a review on it from you, or anyone else who uses them.
Matt Bechtold
Anvil Chorus Brewing
Anvil Chorus Brewing