Brewing Question - Yeast Start Time

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BourbonDrinker · #1 Post by **BourbonDrinker** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:11 am

This Saturday I had a fun week of brewing.

I brewed 5 gallons of Dark Irish Stout and it's bubbling away nicely.

I also threw together 4 gallons of Lemonade and 2 gallons of cider.

To get the lemonade and cider fermenting I prepared a yeast starter. 1/3 of the starter was pitched into the cider and 2/3 was pitched into the lemonade. The cider is now fermenting nicely, but the lemonade is just sitting there... Any ideas?

BourbonDrinker · #2 Post by **BourbonDrinker** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:08 pm

Well the cider has ceased fermentationafter 7 days in the primary. Racked and clarified it on day 11.

The lemonade (started at the same time as the cider) didn't do a thing until the last few days, now it's bubbling away nicely. Wonders never cease---over 7 days before active fermentation starts. Can't wait to see how this grand experiment turns out.

Bill · #3 Post by **Bill** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:47 pm

that's a good observation Devin. I wonder if the citric acid of the lemonade had anything to do with the long delay in the start? pH balance and all that.

I know that yeast will take some time to start if the temperature isn't quite right or if the sugar content of the liquid is much larger than the yeast cake pitched.

I'm assuming you took a smack-pack and created a starter? How many milliliters did you split between the two?

Maybe we could get some of our Yeast Masters to pipe in on this.

Or maybe even the Beast Master... either one would be cool. I don't know jack about yeast really, but I've noticed if I give my thoughts, usually someone will follow/dispute it with fact, rather than my guesses

BourbonDrinker · #4 Post by **BourbonDrinker** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:25 am

I actually used a dry yeast and did a starter. Probably should have let the starter go longer, but it was bubbling away nicely when I pitched it. I made the yeast starter with 2 cups water and 1/2 cup sugar that had been boiled for 15 minutes. Any suggestions about how to better make a starter would be appreciated.

meisel · #5 Post by **meisel** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:01 pm

BourbonDrinker wrote:I actually used a dry yeast and did a starter. Probably should have let the starter go longer, but it was bubbling away nicely when I pitched it. I made the yeast starter with 2 cups water and 1/2 cup sugar that had been boiled for 15 minutes. Any suggestions about how to better make a starter would be appreciated.

A starter is unnecessary when using dry yeast. A single packet has more than enough viable yeast cells to ferment 5 gallons of wort. Rehydrating prior to pitching has it's benefits but some argue to only use water, not a wort starter. Dave Miller's book says that sugars, amino acids, and minerals found in wort can actually interfere with the yeast cell's ability to absorb water.
Also, I would avoid using starters made with sugar. Simple fructose is fermentable but lacks the nutrients needed to produce healthy, viable yeast cells needed for fermenting wort. If you are in a pinch, use malto goya found in the mexican food aisle, or make a mini mash in a french press.

Tuck · #6 Post by **Tuck** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:22 pm

not the first time i've heard of using the malto goya, has anyone done this and is there any feedback on the method, I'm sure its not probably the greatest but does it work well in a pinch?

fergmeister · #7 Post by **fergmeister** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:27 pm

Yeast starters: Wow lots to be said on this topic. Dry yeast should be rehydrated in boiled and cooled water(room temp). (In Brief) It allows the cells to swell and not be stressed by environmental influences. The rehydrated yeast cell walls are a barrier against bad things that can stress the metabolism and cause undesirable things including stuck fermentations. The ph of the lemon juice could and probably did cause osmotic stress. It is difficult to say what allowed the metabolic activity to start after the long lag time. You may even have had a wild yeast start something. The best articles I have ever read on this topic were written by Marybeth Rains who is both the Maltos Falcons and formerly the yeast expert with BrewTech. Check out her paper on yeast propagation at the Maltos Falcons web site. www.maltosfalcons.com. BTW I have made yeast starters from dry yeast both to activate and propagate. Jamil Zanisheff also has articles on starters and proper pitch rates www.mrmalty.com. So what happened? ???? Perhaps the acid killed all but some and the resiostant surviviors multiplied enough to get the job started. The end result may be very dry and tart. I had this same question when I was traveling to Florida every week and saw all of those oranges. Why don't we ferment orange juice? You ever tasted old oranges, They don't taste like sunshine! Perhaps next time get some vodka for the lemonade drink.
Experience

Chuck