Wort Chiller debate

[Mikey]

Hey, everyone--
I think I need to upgrade my wort chiller situation. I currently use an immersion chiller, 50' of 3/8"copper coil, to chill my 10 gal batches. This has caused so many headaches, as copious amounts of cold break settle to the bottom and are clogging flow from my boil kettle. Grrrrrrrr.

My hope is that a different chiller is going to solve my problem.

It seems the homebrew standard is a counterflow chiller; they seem great. Plate chillers look like they'd take up less space, and work just as well if not better. Advantages? Disadvantages? To either?

Help me out here.
First, is using a different chiller gonna help me out with my clogging boil kettle?

And, if so, what chiller to go with? I have no qualms with building stuff, but the cost of raw materials and time vs. purchase of a commercially available item from Northern Brewer....?

Thanks!

_mikey

[Jensen]

uhh, there will be lots of opinions on this topic I am sure! Let me come right out of the gate and say both styles (immersion and counter-flow have great pros\cons) I have used both, counterflow for the last 15, and immersion for the last two. Love them both for diferent reasons...

The real problem you have is not your chiller, it is your kettle! If cold-break is causing clogs in your kettle-- that is the issue that needs to be addressed. A counterflow will just send all that break to your fermenter; maybe not all that much of a problem for an ale... but your lagers will surely suffer.

A better false-bottom situation is what I'd investigate first...

[Blktre]

I agree w/Jenson, Except for the lager suffering part. Correct me if im wrong Jeff, but I think you are saying a clear lager will suffer because the proteins passed to the fermenter via cold break using the counterflow effects clarity. I counter flow and could care less about cold break in the fermenter and I can show you some of my clear lagers that are brilliant clear. Other techniques that I think help contribute to that I think are for another thread.

There are a few schools of thought on chiller design. A con the immersion or whirlpool chilling guys say about counterflow is that when doing this, you get the bulk volume cooled quickly below 160* where DMS precursors are less likely to happen. Ive never been told by other brewers or judges that I have a DMS problem in my beers using the counterflow method where the bulk volume stays above this critical DMS temp zone. My argument is that yea, my bulk volume is still hot, but since im pumping thru a counterflow, im chilling faster than a IM. DMS should be driven off during the boil anyways. So lots of opinions on that.

There is also different thoughts on cold break in the fermenter. Some break does add some nutrients for the yeast. A good thing. Cold break will transfer to your cultivated yeast cake and some people don't like that. Personally, I just care that I don't get any hop material in the fermenter, cold break for me is a non-issue. Others, it bothers them.

If you pick a plate or counterflow, you will need to figure out how not to get any hop particles into these or they will clog. A plate will clog easier than a CFC. Either way, you need to work on your filtering device in your Kettle. I use a FB for whole and a blend of pellet/whole with no clogging. For all pellet, I whirlpool, pull off the side of the cone and gravity feed to a grant to catch the remaining pellets that get thru at the end of the Kettle. IMO, to use a plate or CFC to utilize its efficiency, you will need to pump thru these devices. Gravity feeding these just doesn't have the ease and control as pumping. Pumping will also make sanitation and cleaning easier. A possible drawback is this needs to be done on a regular basis.

I really don't care how someone chills. As long as chilling is done in a reasonable amount of time, I think any type or method works just fine. If you choose a CFC, id think if you used your current IM and turned it into a CFC, that would be your cheapest route. Ive built many of them. Sorry for the book, just found my fingers mumbling along.

[Baron Ken]

...This has caused so many headaches, as copious amounts of cold break settle to the bottom and are clogging flow from my boil kettle.

That sounds to me like your IC is working great!! Rapid chilling will cause a good cold break. Sounds like all is well with your chilling.

I don't have a valve from my keggle, so I siphon the wort (including cold break but not hops as I use a hop bag) into my fermenter. What size is your fitting from your kettle?

[Mikey]

Thanks for weighing in, guys!
Perhaps if I just bring my kettle along with previously tried/failed filtering designs to the meeting this evening, y'all could give me further troubleshooting advice?
Didn't realize that wort chillers could be such a hot button issue among brewers. Thanks for playing nice, kids.
See you tonight!
-M

[fergmeister]

Bring your stuff. I'm bringing stuff for another reason. Looks like a seminar on the fly.
Chuck

[Jensen]

Actually And"e", I'm not talking about clarity issues with lagers and cold break -- time will take care of most clarity issues... I am talking about possible off-flavors that can linger in the background of a lager that sits on too much break for too long. Greg Noonan talks about the affect of too much break and trub sitting in a lager can contribute to a few off flavors such as: a soapy mouth-feel and sometime some fusel alcohol notes. These are often very subtle in the background and not really that big of an issue for most, but if it can be avoided, then why not?

[Blktre]

Actually And"e", I'm not talking about clarity issues with lagers and cold break -- time will take care of most clarity issues... I am talking about possible off-flavors that can linger in the background of a lager that sits on too much break for too long. Greg Noonan talks about the affect of too much break and trub sitting in a lager can contribute to a few off flavors such as: a soapy mouth-feel and sometime some fusel alcohol notes. These are often very subtle in the background and not really that big of an issue for most, but if it can be avoided, then why not?

Noonan writes a good read. Ive found when i get my beers off the trub quickly after primary to secondary glass for cold conditioning or lagering, this is not an issue. I think this stuff creates a great discussion, which id love to partake in, but id hate to get away from Mikey's original question...

I hope Mikey you got your Kettle figured out at the meeting last nite. Your not the only one that has this issue of clogged filters caused from cold break. If you need any further help, just holler.

EDIT: And"e"
I missed this the first time....hahahaha...

[fergmeister]

I have found that the more efficiently I can make both hot and cold breaks the more difficulties I have with the bazooka screen especially when I try to get it all out of the kettle. I just don't like to leave all that good wort, but thats my problem. New addition to the system is a grant made out of one of those ice tea dispencers you see in the convenience stores. The whirlpool method for wort movement (which eliminates heat stratification) and an imersion chiller provide quicker cooling. The trub cone gathered at the center of the pot allows more wort recovery with less solid transfer but once again if you pull wort through the bazooka screen during the whirlpool you still get some clogging problems. All this is using whole hops. When it comes to pellet hops the bazooka screen is a big problem. It ends up looking like a hop stick and nothing flows. Another thing is if you tilt the kettle away from the screen/valve during cooling it allows for a clean area of the screen and it will flow well until the end of the runnings. I need to go to work now c-ya.
C

[fergmeister]

Oh ya what is the grant for? It can filter the wort and solids in a hop sack before it ever gets to the fermenter. Thanks Andy